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	<title>Comments on: Fixing comments at the Missourian</title>
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	<description>Thoughts on digital media and football at MU</description>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://jschooltiger.com/2009/05/13/fixing-comments-at-the-missourian/comment-page-1/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 13:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jschooltiger.com/?p=211#comment-77</guid>
		<description>Paul is right about trolls and safes. If your focus is entirely on prevention, you&#039;ll soon wind up with rules-for-trolls that make everyone else miserable. Better to spend more of your energy improving the experience for the people who use comments in good ways. That includes coming up with ways of dealing with trolls online, just as society has developed ways to deal with trolls in meatspace. 

And Rebekah is spot-on. If you want to offer commenting under a &quot;handle,&quot; go for it -- but have a name and an email and an IP address on file.

Give special perks to users who use their real names. Figure out a rewards system. Consider creating user accounts that let them recommend and bookmark things, for others to see. Display their stats. Give people an identity that goes beyond a comment handle. 

But most importantly, if you want your comments to have value, value them enough to invest your time and attention. If you can&#039;t be bothered to care (and mean it), then just don&#039;t do it. Trollish comments are relatively rare on my blog, because we care about those comments. Trollish comments on my former employer&#039;s site are the rule, because the truth is, nobody there thinks comments have any value beyond the value of a page load.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul is right about trolls and safes. If your focus is entirely on prevention, you&#8217;ll soon wind up with rules-for-trolls that make everyone else miserable. Better to spend more of your energy improving the experience for the people who use comments in good ways. That includes coming up with ways of dealing with trolls online, just as society has developed ways to deal with trolls in meatspace. </p>
<p>And Rebekah is spot-on. If you want to offer commenting under a &#8220;handle,&#8221; go for it &#8212; but have a name and an email and an IP address on file.</p>
<p>Give special perks to users who use their real names. Figure out a rewards system. Consider creating user accounts that let them recommend and bookmark things, for others to see. Display their stats. Give people an identity that goes beyond a comment handle. </p>
<p>But most importantly, if you want your comments to have value, value them enough to invest your time and attention. If you can&#8217;t be bothered to care (and mean it), then just don&#8217;t do it. Trollish comments are relatively rare on my blog, because we care about those comments. Trollish comments on my former employer&#8217;s site are the rule, because the truth is, nobody there thinks comments have any value beyond the value of a page load.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Dziuba</title>
		<link>http://jschooltiger.com/2009/05/13/fixing-comments-at-the-missourian/comment-page-1/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Dziuba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 20:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jschooltiger.com/?p=211#comment-75</guid>
		<description>I personally think the idea of commenting is broken; it provides all the lash-out power of a letter to the editor with none of the consequences (whether they be a retort or the simple knowledge that everyone knows what you think). But newspapers seem to think that commenting is the wave of the future, so with that in mind here&#039;s a couple ideas/comments spawned from forum use:

1) when users register, they have to use a legitimate e-mail address. By this I mean one that you can&#039;t freely obtain like Hotmail or Gmail. Instead make it be tied to the person&#039;s ISP or even work. I&#039;m not sure how technically this is done, but I have been part of forums that do it, and it seems to work fairly well in reducing spam and trolls.

2) &quot;Gamers could teach us a thing or two&quot; - To be fair, this is only half true. Sure, services like Xbox Live feature reputation, but it doesn&#039;t mean anything. The idea of reputation is a great idea if you believe that everyone will give reputation based on the intelligence of discussion, but the reality is people will probably just give positives to the people they agree with and negatives to the people who they don&#039;t. And then the question becomes what to do with that reputation. Based on the above reality, it&#039;s impossible to institute bans based on negative rep, because then people with unpopular opinions would be silenced. That totally defeats the point.

3) The major problem with comments is simply thus: no matter how hard you try, on the net if a troll wants to troll you he/she will. End of story. There is no means available that will prevent this in any way, shape, or form. There is a great quote, &quot;safes are meant to keep the honest honest. What man has made man can break,&quot; and the same is true with comments. By putting control of Web content partially into the hands of all possible users of your Web site, you essentially give people carte blanche to troll you. For a great example of commenting gone wrong, look at the St. Louis Post-Dispatch site. You&#039;ll get the idea.

Sorry that veered off from constructive ideas into criticism of the system. Just my .02.

-Paul</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally think the idea of commenting is broken; it provides all the lash-out power of a letter to the editor with none of the consequences (whether they be a retort or the simple knowledge that everyone knows what you think). But newspapers seem to think that commenting is the wave of the future, so with that in mind here&#8217;s a couple ideas/comments spawned from forum use:</p>
<p>1) when users register, they have to use a legitimate e-mail address. By this I mean one that you can&#8217;t freely obtain like Hotmail or Gmail. Instead make it be tied to the person&#8217;s ISP or even work. I&#8217;m not sure how technically this is done, but I have been part of forums that do it, and it seems to work fairly well in reducing spam and trolls.</p>
<p>2) &#8220;Gamers could teach us a thing or two&#8221; &#8211; To be fair, this is only half true. Sure, services like Xbox Live feature reputation, but it doesn&#8217;t mean anything. The idea of reputation is a great idea if you believe that everyone will give reputation based on the intelligence of discussion, but the reality is people will probably just give positives to the people they agree with and negatives to the people who they don&#8217;t. And then the question becomes what to do with that reputation. Based on the above reality, it&#8217;s impossible to institute bans based on negative rep, because then people with unpopular opinions would be silenced. That totally defeats the point.</p>
<p>3) The major problem with comments is simply thus: no matter how hard you try, on the net if a troll wants to troll you he/she will. End of story. There is no means available that will prevent this in any way, shape, or form. There is a great quote, &#8220;safes are meant to keep the honest honest. What man has made man can break,&#8221; and the same is true with comments. By putting control of Web content partially into the hands of all possible users of your Web site, you essentially give people carte blanche to troll you. For a great example of commenting gone wrong, look at the St. Louis Post-Dispatch site. You&#8217;ll get the idea.</p>
<p>Sorry that veered off from constructive ideas into criticism of the system. Just my .02.</p>
<p>-Paul</p>
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		<title>By: Rebekah Heil</title>
		<link>http://jschooltiger.com/2009/05/13/fixing-comments-at-the-missourian/comment-page-1/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebekah Heil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 19:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jschooltiger.com/?p=211#comment-74</guid>
		<description>If you&#039;re going to have a good comment system, you have to have a registry with a real person and a real email address and a real name somewhere (the latter doesn&#039;t have to be visible to the public). 

People say all kinds of inappropriate, hateful things because they are not held accountable by their name, and if they get shut down, they can always sign on again. If that person who made the quasi-death threat knew that their name was in a database somewhere, they wouldn&#039;t even consider leaving that kind of comment. It seems like it would be fairly easy to monitor new registraions and delete clearly fake ones or email their owners and let them pick from being cancelled or providing a real name that no one else sees.

Since commenting is partially a way for readers to hold newspapers accountable, there&#039;s no reason that newspapers can&#039;t do the same. Anonymity is not a right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re going to have a good comment system, you have to have a registry with a real person and a real email address and a real name somewhere (the latter doesn&#8217;t have to be visible to the public). </p>
<p>People say all kinds of inappropriate, hateful things because they are not held accountable by their name, and if they get shut down, they can always sign on again. If that person who made the quasi-death threat knew that their name was in a database somewhere, they wouldn&#8217;t even consider leaving that kind of comment. It seems like it would be fairly easy to monitor new registraions and delete clearly fake ones or email their owners and let them pick from being cancelled or providing a real name that no one else sees.</p>
<p>Since commenting is partially a way for readers to hold newspapers accountable, there&#8217;s no reason that newspapers can&#8217;t do the same. Anonymity is not a right.</p>
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